Building Relationships with Your Donors During Times of Uncertainty

Kelly Moody has been in the fundraising and advancement world for decades, working for global nonprofits and higher education institutions. Now, as the Vice President of Institutional Advancement for Teachers College, Columbia University, Kelly is thinking about how to best build relationships during times of uncertainty. Her advice? View times of uncertainty as opportunities to better connect with your donors and stakeholders. Focus on building trust in those relationships, and the financial support will follow. In this episode, you'll learn from Kelly and Shane Sugino, The Director of Higher Education at Heller Consulting. We also cover topics including unrestricted donations, how to incorporate DEI principles into your fundraising strategy, and how fundraising is different in nonprofits vs higher education.

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Kaia Swift:

From Heller Consulting, I’m Kaia Swift, and you’re listening to Connected Cause. This show is for leaders at nonprofits and education institutions who are curious about technology. We’re bringing you guests from technology companies, nonprofits, and higher education institutions to find out what they’re learning, what they’re excited about, and how you can move your organization forward in today’s digital age.

My guests today are Kelly Moody and Shane Sugino. Kelly is the Vice President of Institutional Advancement for Teachers College, Columbia University. She has years of leadership experience in the fundraising world, and I wanted to hear from her on what makes a successful fundraiser right now, and how she and her team are building relationships with their stakeholders.

I also asked Shane to join us and offer his advancement advice and bring in that voice from the technology side of things. Kelly and Shane, thank you so much for joining me today.

Kelly Moody:

Thank you for having me.

Shane Sugino:

Really happy to be here. Kaia, thank you for the invitation.

Kaia Swift:

Kelly, I’ll start with you, and I’d love to hear a little bit more about your background and what you are currently doing at Teachers College, Columbia University.

Kelly Moody:

Sure. So I am leading a fundraising and integrated marketing and communications team, where we are charged with raising awareness of Teachers College and its mission, generating leads for revenue through both philanthropy and leads for prospective students who may want to enroll in our classes, and then also doing all of the alumni relations, government relations, and philanthropic giving work with our alumni and other constituents who care deeply about advancing our mission.

Kaia Swift:

It’s a big job. Thank you for being here.

Kelly Moody:

It’s a big job. Thank you.

Kaia Swift:

And then Shane, if you could talk a little bit about your role currently here at Heller and a little bit about your background.

Shane Sugino:

I lead the higher education business at Heller Consulting. Been in the higher education technology consulting space for almost 15 years. I started off as a user of technology at Northwestern University, where I actually met Kelly. She was a fundraiser way back then as well. And then over the next 15 years or so, I’ve been working at various consulting firms to help higher education institutions leverage the power of technology to improve their operations, meet their goals, or any sort of operational performance indicators, and really just ultimately be successful at what they do.

Kaia Swift:

Kelly, I’m excited to pick your brain on a lot of different topics. The first one is fundraising in times of uncertainty. We’ve had a lot of different things thrown at all of us the past few years. We’ve had the pandemic, we have the economy, there are political cycles. How do you advise fundraisers to navigate uncertainty? And what do you think makes a successful fundraiser right now?

Kelly Moody:

In some ways, I think I want to harken back to a phrase that I know has been attributed to a variety of people, but never waste a crisis and never waste an uncertain moment. As a fundraiser, there are lots of reasons why there could be uncertainty in the relationship with donors. They could be going through something personal. The institution could be going through something like a scandal or otherwise. And those kinds of crises are the best time to form bonds, being there for each other. Coming out on the other end means that you’ve created a bond that I like to refer to as sticky. We’re not going to easily separate because we’ve gone through something together. While none of us want those kinds of uncertain times, I see them as gifts and opportunities.

Fundraisers on my team, and the fundraisers I’ve tried to recruit, we’re also engaging them around our TC Take Action platform. It’s an opportunity for them to see us as a resource for policy and advocacy. Then we empower them with templates, access to petitions, access to scripts that they could use to reach out to their own elected officials wherever they are in the country to advocate for things that they feel are meaningful to them and that are also consistent with advancing our mission as a college. So, we’re looking for our relationship with our alumni and our donors to be more than simply a transaction of making a gift.

Kaia Swift:

That’s actually interesting, Kelly, that you say that because it is really true that creating sticky relationships is really the key to success, right? Because we’re all going to experience the ups and downs of economies, of donor capacity, the ebbs and tides of wealth and prosperity. But if you create this sticky relationship, you can transcend the ups and downs of that. We certainly all saw that, right, from the pandemic. But I think if you had a sticky relationship, you actually got through the pandemic pretty successfully because of that.

When I was listening to you speak just now, Kelly, it really is coming down to the relationship and what you’re hoping all of the different stakeholders’ relationships are like with your institution. So, Shane, I’d like to talk to you a little bit about the role that technology can play in helping you facilitate those relationships. Obviously, we’re more of a technology shop, so we think about it through that lens. But this is what you talk about day in, day out. Any advice around how you should think about your technology systems and how they’re helping you build those sticky relationships?

Shane Sugino:

Relationships are built person-to-person. It’s very much a human activity. But what technology can do is help scale that, provide insights, and build those relationships. The single most important thing that powers the technology to help an organization build those sticky relationships is data. It seems to be the biggest challenge most institutions have—having access to all the data they need, number one, and number two, identifying what the critical data points are.

And it’s really hard for organizations. I still see a lot of higher education institutions struggle with the concept of minimizing how much data they need. They’re still stuck in the mindset of, “I need all the data because that’s what I’m used to—just having access to everything.”

At Heller Consulting and other consulting firms, we spend a lot of time challenging institutions to decide, “What are the critical pieces of information I need to help make decisions about the relationships I have with donors or potential donors? What is their capacity to give? What motivates them to give? How can we build long-term relationships to encourage more substantial giving?” And it all comes down to the data.

Kelly Moody:

Yeah, but if I can jump in, I’ve also experienced, at different times in my career, situations where people are paralyzed by the data because it’s not super clean. As a fundraiser who uses data analysis to make decisions, I’ve learned that the decisions we’re making are based on the data we have today. We need to accept the data for what it is, knowing it will evolve and improve over time—just as relationships do.

We must give ourselves grace as fundraisers to make decisions, take action, and iterate over time. Use continuous improvement. Don’t let imperfect data paralyze you from even taking that first step. Be comfortable with what you have.

Kaia Swift:

Given where you’re sitting, Shane, and knowing you talk to many clients, how are they approaching their data and analysis with the long-overdue awakening about how DEI principles impact the industry and the systemic change that fundraising must undergo, given its origins in white privilege?

Shane Sugino:

Absolutely. And no, we did not pay you, Kelly, for that introduction to this topic. At Heller, we’re thinking significantly about DEI principles—how we collect data and help our clients use data, even understanding the biases inherent in something as simple as listing ethnicities and race on a survey. Often, Caucasian or white is listed first by default, not even consciously, but it sends a message about an organization’s perspective.

There are a lot of conversations we need to have about these biases, and I think we’re just scratching the surface.

Kelly Moody:

For example, when I ask for a prospect list, the default is often to rank by capacity. But built into that capacity assumption is an inherent focus on wealth that has been multi-generationally built. Even if we’re considering a first-generation college graduate, they’re likely building wealth for the first time compared to their family.

I’ve challenged my team to think differently: “How might we create a capacity rating system that includes black and brown communities, considering the wealth they’ve built with the means available over the last hundreds of years?” We want to include them as equal members of our community and empower them to be philanthropic advocates. It’s a work in progress, but it’s a crucial conversation.

Shane Sugino:

And we’re also helping clients adopt inclusive data practices. For instance, are there ways for donors or external stakeholders to update their profiles over time? Kelly, do you have thoughts on how fundraisers can better incorporate updates from donors as their relationships evolve?

Kelly Moody:

It’s a challenge. For instance, I’ve definitely bought into the idea that we should not be ascribing identities to our alumni, volunteers, or others. Instead, we’ve started doing more surveys to let them tell us who they are.

When we collect this information, it’s important to be transparent about why we’re gathering it and how it will be used. People want to know.

Shane Sugino:

Right. And there are also legal and regulatory environments to consider, like GDPR in Europe and U.S. state laws. These regulations add layers of complexity to data collection.

Kelly Moody:

Absolutely. And beyond the legal implications, there are also cultural differences. I remember working with recruiters at Northwestern and seeing how comfort levels around collecting identity information varied by country. Some countries are much more comfortable sharing data than others, and those cultural differences don’t always align with U.S. standards.

Shane Sugino:

One nonprofit client shared with me that when they moved systems, they realized some of the data they’d been collecting years ago put them at legal risk. It’s an example of why we must be intentional and transparent about data collection practices.

Kelly Moody:

It’s fascinating to see how the market is evolving and how the questions we’re asking now weren’t even considered 20 years ago.

Kaia Swift:

Kelly, I know we talked about what makes a successful fundraiser. I’d like to flip the question: what makes a good donor?

Kelly Moody:

That’s such a good question. For a long time, donors have leaned toward restricted funding because it aligns with their philanthropic priorities, and it’s easier for us to steward. But unrestricted funding is the holy grail in our industry—it’s by far the most impactful dollar, but also the hardest to raise.

Unrestricted donors, like Mackenzie Scott, are rare. Their generosity comes from trust in the organizations they support.

Kaia Swift:

Is that trust the key to encouraging unrestricted giving?

Kelly Moody:

Totally. Research shows that a lack of trust in organizations is a significant factor driving the preference for restricted giving. It’s a challenge, but it’s also an opportunity to demonstrate the impact of unrestricted support and build diverse revenue streams.

Kaia Swift:

I know marketing and communications often overlap with fundraising. What’s your advice for aligning efforts across these departments?

Kelly Moody:

We have to work hand in glove. Marketing and communications raise awareness, often serving as the leading edge of donor acquisition. They’re incredible wordsmiths, and I regularly rely on them to help me craft better messaging.

Shane Sugino:

That collaboration is key. And it’s fascinating to think about donor journeys—how people move from casual interest to major gifts.

Kelly Moody:

Exactly. Donor journeys are not linear, which is why I love the concept of a web rather than a funnel. Some donors move through traditional pathways—starting with small gifts, taking time off for personal reasons, then re-engaging and eventually leaving a major planned gift. Others skip steps entirely, reaching out after reading something on our website to make a significant gift.

I challenge my team to rethink the funnel concept. It’s useful in certain contexts, but the web better represents how relationships naturally evolve.

Shane Sugino:

I completely agree. Funnels assume that people make decisions linearly, but human nature is anything but linear. A web approach recognizes that donors are complex individuals who engage in unpredictable ways. They might skip steps, pause, or revisit earlier stages, and that’s okay. The web embraces these realities.

Kaia Swift:

As I listen to both of you, it seems like it all comes back to relationships—understanding and nurturing the connections people have with your institution. That seems to be the thread running through everything we’ve discussed.

Kelly Moody:

Exactly. And today, we’re in a world where platforms like Amazon have set the standard for personalization. Nonprofits and educational institutions aren’t retail environments, but people expect that level of customization in their interactions.

Higher education often lags behind the private sector by a decade, but the more we can close that gap, the better we can meet our constituents where they are.

Shane Sugino:

I agree, but I also think it’s important to remain true to who we are. I don’t want us to become Amazon. I want us to be distinctly Teachers College. That distinction is crucial.

Kaia Swift:

Kelly, how does fundraising for a nonprofit compare to fundraising for higher education? Are there lessons higher ed could learn from the nonprofit world?

Kelly Moody:

Absolutely. I came to Teachers College from a humanitarian organization, and I learned a lot there. For example, advocacy as an engagement tool is something I brought into higher ed. Our TC Take Action initiative was inspired by what I saw in the nonprofit space.

Another lesson is cause-driven messaging. Millennials and Gen Z are less likely to connect with education as an abstract concept. They respond to causes like social justice and human rights, which education impacts deeply. I see education as addressing root causes, much like the third friend in the parable who goes upstream to stop the babies from being thrown into the river.

In terms of fundraising, higher ed has the advantage of tuition as a built-in unrestricted revenue stream, which has historically allowed fundraising operations to focus on budget augmentation rather than budget sustenance. But as the higher ed business model faces challenges—fewer students, less affluent backgrounds, greater support service needs—fundraising will need to adapt.

Kaia Swift:

Where do you see opportunities for higher education to grow?

Kelly Moody:

Higher ed can learn from nonprofits’ ability to raise unrestricted dollars quickly and at scale. At the same time, nonprofits could benefit from adopting multi-year pledges, which allow for more sustainable growth. There’s room for cross-sector learning on both sides.

Kaia Swift:

As we approach the end of the year, what excites you most about the work ahead?

Kelly Moody:

I’m excited about the creativity my team brings and the ways alumni are engaging with us—through volunteering, supporting their communities, and contributing to our mission. To me, the most rewarding part isn’t the gifts themselves but the impact those gifts have.

We recently launched our first giving day, and we’re looking forward to expanding it in the spring by incorporating a global day of service. It’s all about celebrating the positive change our alumni are making in the world.

Kaia Swift:

Thank you both for such an insightful conversation.

Kelly Moody:

Thank you for having me.

Shane Sugino:

It’s been a pleasure. Thank you.

Kaia Swift:

Thank you for listening to Connected Cause! For more nonprofit tech resources, visit teamheller.com.

Original transcript available on Apple Podcasts.